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Thread: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

  1. #71
    Junior UHF Member David7223's Avatar
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    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    Quote Originally Posted by jetora View Post
    Anyone ever heard about this rumor? Apparently since 2002 there is a supposed member of the Illuminati living in the heart of london who arranges bizarre job interviews looking for artists/other creative types (presumably for the creation or injection of symbolism propaganda into various artforms).

    The stories usually entail some form of bizarre "job interview" taking place with a man named Frank Webster, where the participants (atleast, the ones desperate enough) end up being put through bizarre scenarios such as agreeing to be interviewed in the middle of a pitch black subway tunnel in the early hours of the morning, to others similar to ordinary interviews involving intimidating Men in Black and incredibly hard time based mathematical exams which have almost nothing to do with the skills outlined in the advert, and even more which involve elements of the paranormal, strange video tapes, occult and other symbolism. Usually nothing comes of the interviews, and most people think it's an elaborate prank or there are elements of disinformation at play, but the rumor says that a very few of the applicants are sourced to work on projects such as the Denver Airport.

    (And if you're wondering why I'm asking because I'm honestly interested in getting in contact with the 'illuminati recruiter' "Frank" if he exists, I mean it's probably more beneficial to be on their side when this shit hits the fan..)
    I seem to be lost as well. I thought this was a London subject and the Illuminati living here. My friend on this site Paddywack has experienced Lorraine Paretta and Frank first hand. dating back over 20 years in London when he was in the performing arts and was targetted by these individuals hiding under assumed identities to keep themselves off the radar of the authorities. The only problem there was he was Micro-chip implanted in various parts of his body and in particular his scrotum and anal passage and behind his ears of all places and he has more on other parts of the body as well. In fact his home was burgled during a vacation and his house was re-wired with devices hidden in the walls providing digital stereo surround sound. But that's not all of it, Whoever it is 'Frank' or 'Lorraine' they have the ability through the micro-chip implants to control his sexual desires and make him perform sexual acts whilst unknown to him he's being filmed in his house via the TV or Iphone to a adult sex site which would appear above board and completely legal. But it's not Legal as he did not consent to any of it. In fact he does not recieve a penny of this income. That's not the worst of it. 'Frank' and associates are using his home internet connection to streamline his online sexual antics without his knowledge. His Immediate neighbours are all involved in minor ways like 'keeping it one big secret' from him. When trying to log on to his personal email a message will coming stating 'username already in use' as if someone is already connected to his Internet and this happens every weekend. I cant name names although 'Paddywack' will do that all in good time. When the Internet service provider is confronted with this evidence they will log an initial report but nothing else is ever followed up. Then when brough to the attention of the Police they look at him as if he is suffering from Mental Health which is Not the case in this thread. So it's

  2. #72
    Junior UHF Member David7223's Avatar
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    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    It is believed the Illuminati are the Police hence nothing ever being investigated

  3. #73

    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    You are right... the subject strayed and I probably had something to do with that so I will withdraw and let you gentlemen pursue the subject. The only comment that I want to make is that things that are this nasty are not necessarily the work of Illuminati... whoever they are.... could very well be just a group of like minded and twisted men/women with an agenda that needs to be hidden.....who could they be? From your descriptions here I wouldn't put some of it past the English Intelligence Services....they have had a history of doing anything that worked during WWII....and the CIA has some interesting programs working.... anal probes??? Sounds pretty diabolical.... I will leave it to you gentlemen to explore this avenue! Don't forget the Alien dipping though! <g> I understand that they are pretty good with wierd probes too! <g> Linda Brown

  4. #74
    Active UHF Member Active Member Rank ianchris948's Avatar
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    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    Quote Originally Posted by David7223 View Post
    It is believed the Illuminati are the Police hence nothing ever being investigated
    The police have a very active role since it has been proven they are most vulnerable sector of society prone to corruption. For that reason, we, as a society, have a right to demand complete transparency within the operations of these civil servants which is an obligation we have to ourselves and to our fellow citizens. Kindly be reminded, the police work for us not the other way around.


    I know this because of an incident when I gave one of the El Salvadoran Consulate workers the warning to back the f-ck off me, which involved me pinning them against a toilet and the wall with a trash bin.

    After I finished delivering my diplomacy I went back to the office and told the doctor the cops were coming and it wasn't 5 minutes later when they showed up. The "Illuminati-puppet" policeman showed up with a police woman that wasn't in the "loop" and wasn't aware of all the underlying corruption at play. So when the El Salvadorian consulate worker accused me of threatening her life, and the life of every one of her family members, and proceeded to reiterate what else I told her, the female cop took one look at me, 5'7'' and 120 lbs and said "Who? Him?"

    I, of course, had no idea what she was talking about. I don't even speak Spanish. So that woman was obviously completely delusional, and so scared of me she was standing behind the male cop shaking. The male cop knew exactly what was going on and he also knew I had every God given right to back that b-tch up against a rock and a hard place for the "secret" effort they were making to f-ck with me.

    He and I took a walk to my car, so he could take a look at my license which was just the excuse to get me away from all the "eyes" and "ears" at the scene. He didn't want to see my license, he knew who I was and once we were far enough away from the building he told me "If I were you, I would get the Hell out of dodge because there is a great effort here against you."

    I gave that statement to the Central Intelligence Agency under oath and bound by penalty of perjury and somehow the file was misplaced.
    Last edited by ianchris948; March 5th, 2013 at 11:08 PM.
    Would any god, lesser or True, wish to pollute their Paradise with swine?

  5. #75
    Active UHF Member Active Member Rank ianchris948's Avatar
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    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    Quote Originally Posted by David7223 View Post
    I seem to be lost as well. I thought this was a London subject and the Illuminati living here. My friend on this site Paddywack has experienced Lorraine Paretta and Frank first hand. dating back over 20 years in London when he was in the performing arts and was targetted by these individuals hiding under assumed identities to keep themselves off the radar of the authorities. The only problem there was he was Micro-chip implanted in various parts of his body and in particular his scrotum and anal passage and behind his ears of all places and he has more on other parts of the body as well. In fact his home was burgled during a vacation and his house was re-wired with devices hidden in the walls providing digital stereo surround sound. But that's not all of it, Whoever it is 'Frank' or 'Lorraine' they have the ability through the micro-chip implants to control his sexual desires and make him perform sexual acts whilst unknown to him he's being filmed in his house via the TV or Iphone to a adult sex site which would appear above board and completely legal. But it's not Legal as he did not consent to any of it. In fact he does not recieve a penny of this income. That's not the worst of it. 'Frank' and associates are using his home internet connection to streamline his online sexual antics without his knowledge. His Immediate neighbours are all involved in minor ways like 'keeping it one big secret' from him. When trying to log on to his personal email a message will coming stating 'username already in use' as if someone is already connected to his Internet and this happens every weekend. I cant name names although 'Paddywack' will do that all in good time. When the Internet service provider is confronted with this evidence they will log an initial report but nothing else is ever followed up. Then when brough to the attention of the Police they look at him as if he is suffering from Mental Health which is Not the case in this thread. So it's
    I could testify in a court of law in support of these claims because these people made the attempt to the same to me. Fortunately, my intuition picked up on it before they could do any real harm to my physical person. So, out of spite they killed my partner because they knew he was my financial security and the only way they could hurt me was to take that away from me.

    This is also the reason why I take such horrible offense to being attacked and slandered with accusations of being delusional or "crazy" especially by people who lack the medical qualifications necessary for such claims to be credible.

    The succeeded by making me homeless and penniless, however they didn't anticipate my vehemence and stamina. When they tried to trap me in the basement of a burning building, I was able to crawl out from the sliver of an air vent... I'm 5' 7'' an I weight 120 lbs and as long as an opening is wide enough for my head, I can manage the rest quite easily.

    Well I surprised them with my next chess move because they sure as hell didn't expect me to show up in the "Lions Dens" sitting next to the "Boss" Lion himself. They hate me because they have taken everything from me, except my self-worth, dignity and intelligence, and because of my personal constitution, they haven't been able to jar my foundation.

    I have a vendetta against these people, they can't kill me because they aren't smart enough to preempt me and because I have humiliated them publically, they don't simply want me dead, they want me to suffer a horrible death.

    "Paddywack" is the reason why my crusade to destroy them is righteous. No one should suffer by the hands of these monsters. They must be stopped and so help me God, I will stop them and the entire lot.

    When one grape vine goes sour in a vineyard, every grape vine must be pulled, because if the infection spoils the land, nothing will grow from it.
    Last edited by ianchris948; March 5th, 2013 at 11:18 PM.
    Would any god, lesser or True, wish to pollute their Paradise with swine?

  6. #76

    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    I am loving you Ianchris948, the way you write makes me feel and see you somehow..a little odd to some people but not to me. Here is your bone for tonight!! I must start by saying it's difficult for me to type sometimes as the not so beautiful people who decided to take over my life hypnotise me and make me forget where the hell I am.

    The first thing that happened to me was back in 2003, a so called friend of mine, Derek Saunders, told me he knew someone who could film you in your home without you knowing and give you a recording of this a few days later, classy!! I thought no more of this until I was burgled a few months later whilst on holiday in Italy. The now not so friendly, Lorraine Perretta, ex Coke dealer in New York and now Nutritionist at the Brain Bio Centre in London, was looking after my flat. She called me when I was away to ask if she could have sex with a builder working on her place, by the name of Colin Mac something. She wanted to do this at my flat as I was away and so her real boyfriend Colin didn't find out. She used to call the builder Colin, Mac, so as not to confuse which one she was talking about. I agreed to this as I didn't really give a damn and she had a wild time. This was on a Tuesday night, by the Thursday night I had been burgled and all my electrical and valuables were taken, my now dodgy neighbour Theresa Archer, called the police. Apparently a courier was going by at the time and kindly notified my neighbour of the smashed window and she called the police, Lorraine Perretta called me on the Thursday to tell me and I came straight back from Italy, very distressed. I thought it was your normal burglary until about a week later when i started to hear strange voices around my building and Lorraine kept calling me and disturbing me to the point I was becoming suspicious. There was a lot of street theatre outside and I began to notice lots of girls and guys milling around and people sitting in cars etc. After trying to get rid of Lorraine by all sorts of measures I gave in and let her come over which is when my hell started.
    Lorraine started coming on to me, I am gay!!, what the fuck I thought. She offered me a cocktail of something and two pills, which I refused, then I started to notice more sounds and holograms and visuals. I started to think about what Derek Saunders had said about the filming and thought they are planning something so like an idiot and a horny one at the time, I went along with it. It was as if I was being filmed because the holograms were people looking back at me as if they could see me, some having BDSM sex and some sitting on sofas etc. I was intrigued as I thought this was going to lead to something but Lorraine told me she had to leave and i was left alone to play around with myself and the visuals..too honest for my own good!! Hours went by with this sort of house theatre, sound and visuals which you would normally only experience on drugs, unitl eventually like an idiot i drank some of the cocktail Lorraine Perretta left me and the next thing I remember, is waking up stark naked on my sofa to silence and my arms crossed as if I had been buried!! It was as if some sort of ritual had been performed but my mind was full of blanks.
    I sat up and within about 2 minutes of this the phone went, it was Lorraine asking me how i was, I had felt better and wanted answers from her. She told me she was at a convention of Patrick Holford's a well known Doctor here who is famous for helping people with their weight and nutrition. The thing was she called me about 5 times in the space of about 90 minutes and I remeber saying, How can you keep calling me if your in the convention? She said she kept popping out. The next thing I get up off the sofa, as if guided, and look out of the window to see Lorraine Perretta getting into a car with three other men, with a black cab behind it with a driver and driving off. I get dressed as quickly as I can and go out but I was too slow and they drove off. To say I am pissed is stretching it...I tried to call her and her phone goes to voice mail. She denies everything but the bitch is mixed up in some sort of porn ring as I have since found out they were filming me in my home on this particular night for their new BDSM site called Alt.Net. This site was shut down by the police and the culprits never found. I found all the files under the names of Debs, Derek Saunders girlfriend and the rest under Frank or Trevor or simply Alt.net. They were running the site from my home, with me as the star performer and making loads of money out of my live sex performances, and I had no idea. I continued to hear the sounds around the home and on occasions I heard Lorraine's voice saying, "I knew he would do it!!!" Then she said Frank hates him and my neighbour Theresa Archer came out of her home and said, "My son does not hate anyone". I'm thinking who the fuck is this Frank!! and why is my suburban neighbour's son filming me in my own home, I thought he worked for Secom, the security company. This went on for weeks but got worse when the theatricals got worse and all sorts of imagery was somehow projected into my home. It sounds crazy to write unless you have experienced it but it is something like Cirque du Soleil, and the name Frank kept being mentioned and I always heard people saying Frank isn't who you think he is. I felt as if I was being controlled and would fall asleep as if hypnotised. I have since found out that, someone used to come in and have sex with me on live web cam but I can never remember. I started to get erections all the time and then found two implants in my scrotum which I can see and feel which appeared to have some sort of frequency coming from them. This also happened to my anus but instead of pleasure it was torture and they started to burn me as if by microwave energy. I started to feel these electrical pulse's everyway and would suddenly want to do lewd things on my own in my home. This was always on a Friday or Saturday night and I now realise they could see me somehow but I could not see them, only hear them. If I did not do certain things they would torture me so it was easier go along with it in the hope it would stop. I am still living in the same place above the same neighbours and I know they are a part of this but the police just laugh when I go to them. Recently I found out that my neighbours son is in trouble with the police but i think he is working with the police because nothing ever happens to him. I have to stop now and aplogise if this is difficult to read. I have masses and masses of things to say and I will try to set aside sometime every week to talk about some of it. It might be disjointed but it will be the truth. Ask me anything you want to know but I am definitely connected to something from the Illuminati. I will finish on this as bizarre as it sounds, someoen is also helping me, as if I have divided a group and I have so much information and will fight until I die. I am studying to be a humanistic counsellor and am a recovered addict, clean and sober for years. I could not be more sane and I would forgive even my worst enemy if they changed. I believe everyone can change and I am praying that my luck changes and I get a moment alone. Lorraine Perretta has the answer to my nightmare but she is choosing to not tell me. My higher power, me will get me through this, faith, hope and courage.

  7. #77
    Administrator UHF Administator Rank Lady of Light's Avatar
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    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    I will say this...

    The only way to expose anyone is to KEEP TALKING. I believe that these things need to be brought to the light in order for them to end. KEEP TALKING.

    Thank you for sharing this story, Paddywack. If this is happening to you, no doubt, it is happening to others as well.


    Some of you believe this thread has strayed, but I believe it is what it was meant to be. It started with someone looking for "Frank" an Illuminati member, and although "Frank" may or may not be found (with this latest story), more seems to be coming to light and I believe it is all connected.
    Go through your life with love and light, and nothing can truly harm you.

  8. #78

    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    Hi IanChris
    I posted a message on the Illuminati thread but will do one every Saturday night from now on. I know you and I understand so it will be good to talk more. I will say though that in a bizarre way someone is also helping me so there is definitely a split somewhere between good and bad.. On a training day today so keeping this brief.

    Take care

  9. #79
    Active UHF Member Active Member Rank ianchris948's Avatar
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    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddywack View Post
    Hi IanChris
    I posted a message on the Illuminati thread but will do one every Saturday night from now on. I know you and I understand so it will be good to talk more. I will say though that in a bizarre way someone is also helping me so there is definitely a split somewhere between good and bad.. On a training day today so keeping this brief.

    Take care
    That's interesting. I wouldn't give them that much credit because I know them on a personal level. The only help we receive is from God,whatever that might be. I keep repeating the fact that I am not a religious person, which sounds contradicting by how much I reference God. I have always been a skeptic of religion. My entire life I had a disgust for modern religion, I resented Christianity for perverting the image of God to suit the church's agenda. I never understood the reason why the God issue was such a sensitive nerve of mine until I met a certain Buddhist Lama my senior year in college.

    Allow me to say that when these people throw us a bone, per say, it isn't to help us so much as it is see what we do with it. They believe that they are superior to God. There have been moments when I have doubted whether they were even human because the atrociousness of what they represent, specifically cannibalism, is hard for me to rationalize as a human trait and on some level I cannot accept this behavior as being humanly possible under "normal" daily conditions.

    Another reality I keep in focus is how the majority of their victims commit suicide so the fact that we found each other is pretty amazing. If you are honest to your claims, which I believe you are, then the force that brought us together on this forum, was God, not them. God is the energy that connects us and I truly feel and believe that the person who has made this exchange possible, is not in any way associated with them. A month ago I was very skeptical of this forum because my experience with forums has been quite negative. My intuition was receptive, and because I have learned not to give familiarity a benefit of doubt, I questioned the origin of that connection. A month later after intensively exploring that feeling , I have been able to determine that connection is God, which means we out number them on this forum. Which also makes the forum attractive for them because they have an unhealthy desire for mind control.

    Nothing in life happens for nothing and everything has a reason and purpose for happening. Ultimately the decisions we each made regarding this forum, came to us through a higher power and I must maintain that logic because without it there would be no reason to continue in this life, at least not for me because my life ended the day I went home and found myself locked out by strangers who, at that point, had everything I owned except my car and the clothes I was wearing. When the authorities called me delusional, I asked them to explain to me how a delusional vagrant affords to drive a Jaguar XJR. I expected them to tell me I was delusional for thinking I drove a Jaguar, instead they suggested I seek Psychiatric help. Based on their response, I knew Psychiatrists must be working in orchestra with them, on some level.

    I perform regular Google searches to maintain a current outlook of how my information is circulating in the world. Whenever I publish something, like a press release or blog entry, I have noticed a flood of content being fed into the internet by people named "Alejandro" which has made my information harder to find. 5 years ago, I was impossible to find because I value my privacy too much and I made the effort the maintain a level of anonymity because it's one thing to be known within your community, its another to be known around the world. When this started I realized my chances were almost as slim as winning the lottery and I knew the only way I would survive would be if I became famous on a world-wide scale Luckily I have no secrets, which has worked in my favor because there's nothing they can use against me.

    They even made the effort to dig up an arrest record, except the reason I had been arrested was because I had the wrong color of skin to be driving a Jaguar through a certain neighborhood. I tend to have a pretty fierce countenance so when the officer told me to get out of the vehicle I very aggressively demanded he tell me which laws I was in question of violating first and instead of doing his job within his legal parameters, he decided to pull me out of my vehicle through the window.

    He then performed an illegal search which of course was unproductive, and the reason why I was arrested me was because I challenged him, which made him mad and because he had the power to ruin 3 days of my life, he did so, out of spite. He claimed the vehicle had been stolen, which was not case. I told him I was gay, which was also not the case, however it was a legal strategy that was in my best interest. Surprisingly it wasn't a bad experience. I kept taking off the handcuffs which the male officers had no problem with, 5 times bigger than me, except it kept pissing off one of the female officers, which her male counterparts found amusing. So for 5 hours we played this game of me taking off the handcuffs, handing them back to the b-tch cop, telling her I wasn't a threat and then watching her burst a few hundred capillaries. LOL It actually was kind of funny. Apparently, they don't make them in my size because the last notch wasn't tight enough for my wrists.

    Actually that incident proves I am not delusional because my release was expedited by Psych. The Psychologist that performed my psych evaluation happened to be an alum of the same University I received my degree from. That person asked me how does a graduate of Chapman University end up locked up at the Los Angeles County Men's Central jail... I told them I was the wrong shade of brown behind the wheel of a Jaguar and not only was I gay, but I was going on sue the f-ck out of the Los Angeles Sheriffs the minute I got my clothes back. I was released on my own recognizance and I received an apology from the department. So it's in all of our best interests not to talk about it. I don't mind though, it's an amusing story.

    Allow me bring myself back on topic.

    I want to show you something. I tried to cue the following video clip to begin at 2 minutes 35 seconds because at 2 minutes 38 seconds, there is a "son-dad Juicy boys duo" and the individual on the left is the billionaire doctor who I refer to as "the boss" (among other colorful terms of endearment) However there a problem with YouTube apparently this video is causing some amount of havoc and YouTube is influencng technically issues with my account. I can't image what about this content has them so nervous. Fear not I have a back-up source of the file.



    This following images are of the "son" who I have a very strong feeling uses the alias "Frank Webster." He is also know as "Sean Taylor" "Taylor Thomas" "Paul Wong" and the list goes on. I consider this person to be extremely dangerous and I have reason to believe his is a sociopath which is based on my first hand interaction with him and observation of his intimate behavior. His violence concerns me because it's a constant state of mind for him, meaning, he doesn't react emotionally, he breaks things because he is coherent of how much fear it produces in the people around him. That fear is how he maintains his control. That concerns me because it suggests he would kill someone, if he believed it was necessary for maintaining his control. I also believe this is the true individual that murdered my partner. The "Boss" has made him untouchable by the authorities. The FBI knows about him, and I have been able to ascertain they have been given a directive to keep their distance from him. By saying that I mean, the FBI is accomplice to his illegality in general and only they are privy to the specific details.

    The Illuminati Agent Living in London-sean-taylor-jpg

    In the middle photo labeled #3, he is the male on the right and the most interesting aspect of that image, is how I also know the male no the left. He and I are the same age, we met when we were 19 yrs old. I didn't trust him then, and I still don't.

    This next image is of the actor Peter North aka Matt Ramsey. He was born in Nova Scotia as Alden Brown in 1957.

    The Illuminati Agent Living in London-peternorthwikibomb2-png


    I have very good reason to believe he is the biological father.

    I have been living with family since I became homeless. The house is in a very conservative suburban neighborhood. This is the last place one would find them, as you can image when I moved here 5 years, the environment was free from their presence.

    Now, 5 years later, these people own the house next door, the house across the street, 3 houses on the next street over, 2 houses on the street after that, actually they own the majority of the houses in this neighborhood now.

    The reason why I know this is because I have had sex with a number of people at these houses, who claimed the house belonged to their "employer" I, of course, have the real estate records for each of these properties since each one was built. I know exactly who they are. And guess what? They are Canadian. I don't have anything against Canadians. I am actually very fond of Canadians. Nonetheless, I have a personal reason to distrust "Canadians" because Peter North is Canadian and he seems to be the source of all this effort against me. However, I prevent the paranoia from getting the better of me, by reminding myself of the "secret" clues that connect them which are centered around sports teams, for some reason. When they bought the house across the street I confronted the son-of-a-b-tch the day he closed the deal. He claims to be a pilot, they all claim to be pilots, or hockey players, or some other profession just an grandiose. Pilot my -ss, more like trash collector at the airport that services the plane these -ssholes own, which by the way, is not a judgement, that is my third eye seeing the truth behind the bullsh-t.

    Anyone that attacks that as being a judgement, would be driven by an insecurity, because there's nothing wrong with being a trash collector, but there is something wrong, with being a trash collector who claims to be a pilot just to avoid the next question "So how does a trash collector, afford to buy a house in this neighborhood, cash?"
    Last edited by ianchris948; March 12th, 2013 at 07:39 PM. Reason: There was a problem with cued the video clip
    Would any god, lesser or True, wish to pollute their Paradise with swine?

  10. #80

    Re: The Illuminati Agent Living in London

    Iancris,

    And this is supposed to interest all of us because??????

    So a cop pulled you out of the window of your Jag because you refused to comply?

    So you think somehow the neighborhood is being bought up by.... shudder.... Canadians?
    And then you spit out this kind of garbage which really needs to be highlighted..... Is this your view of the world then? Is this your agenda? So if it is.... why do we continue to read the froth that you produce? Its a question I think each of us needs to ask. I am reminded of the old saying..... Garbage In.... Garbage Out. The things that you said below needed to have a response. Nobody has to agree with me but I am responding anyway so that it is there.

    "I have a vendetta against these people, they can't kill me because they aren't smart enough to preempt me and because I have humiliated them publically, they don't simply want me dead, they want me to suffer a horrible death. No..... its probably even worse than that Ianchris... they probably don't even know that you exist.... which is probably that " fate worse than death" that you are so concerned with.

    "Paddywack" is the reason why my crusade to destroy them is righteous. No one should suffer by the hands of these monsters. They must be stopped and so help me God, I will stop them and the entire lot. Go forth in your righteousness! Sounds like the Crusades.... and the horses will be fetlock deep in the blood of the slain! Because you are so righteous.....and then Ian Chris.... what happens then? The ball is still bouncing.

    When one grape vine goes sour in a vineyard, every grape vine must be pulled, because if the infection spoils the land, nothing will grow from it. I don't trust this kind of blind judgement.... or people who spout it.

    I suspect that true colors are being shown here and we should probably pay attention. But not allow ourselves to be drawn into the grape yanking party. Linda

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