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Thread: I AM Amaterasu...

  1. #11

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Amaterasu, I wonder if you heard of RBE, resource based economy, the Venus project and the Zeitgeist movement?

  2. #12

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Hi Lliqerty, please check: zeitgeistmovie.com and view Adendum, you might understand how wrong you are
    Last edited by Desiree; June 8th, 2012 at 04:10 PM.

  3. #13

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Yes I have, and where I differ is in the question of governance/government. They both assume a government of sorts. I offer stigmergic governance via the web, with no government. Also, I do not like the terms "Resource Based Economy." The economy will be one of social gains, and resources will flow to those who want them. It will not be an economy, per se, with only bliss and good will as "payment." I much more prefer the Abundance Paradigm, as abundance is what We will have, and it is a paradigm shift from energy scarcity which requires money to account for meaningful energy expended.
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

  4. #14

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Hi Amaterasu, your reply confused me specially the government/government point you make, as I am a member of the Zeitgeist movement, so I posted your reply and asked if that is true,,, here are some of the responses form different members and me
    There wont be any governance and what they are describing IS a resource based economy. The word economy meant to manage the household; Our household is the world. I think he is just attached to the negativity of how the word economy is used today. In an RBE, we wont need abstract figures like gross domestic product, we'll measure the happiness of population, resource requirements and so forth.
    ‎'They both assume a government of sorts.' They don't. 'The economy will be one of social gains, and resources will flow to those who want them' Not true, they will flow to those that need them. No one governs, beyond the transition period anyway, but computer programmes will eventually dictate, but we'll be glad about that because they will ensure we don't destroy our environment.

    Rather than using the phrase 'computer programmes will eventually dictate', 'human needs will be provided for as part of a holistic calculation of resource management, including extraction, production and distribution'? We are all very well aware of how people project current values into a new paradigm, although this person does seem to be moving in a similar direction! :-)

    And you may want to distinguish between 'wants', which are culturally driven in a distorted value system based on scarcity, and needs which are quantifiable and apply to everyone equally, with no cultural relativism involved? Once everyone's needs are met sustainably all of the time, they are set free to explore, discover and create within a value system underpinned by the awareness of the need for sustainability in all the things, which is unlikely to constrain anyone in a system of planned and tracked resource management!

    I also think what you're friend has described is pretty much a RBE ...as I understand it! A decentralised collaborative (stigmatic) system that ultimately provides access abundance. I wonder where they get the notion of government from?

  5. #15

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Surely if one needs a resource, One will want it... So all needs will be met. Point is that this planet has enough to meet the needs at least 10 times over, and in the case of housing, hundreds or thousands of times over. This is a vastly abundant planet. So wants can easily be met, far surpassing needs.

    "Wants" will shift towards minimalism as the consumer-driven economy abates. No ads to want this or want that. Most will be comfortable with needs met, and the ability to do as One pleases within the three Laws. You may want to check out My thread, The Ethical Planetarian... https://unhypnotize.com/articles-new...anetarian.html

    I make a distinction between governMENT and gonernANCE - in governMENT, a few are in the decision-making process. In governANCE, all who care to be involved have equal voice and can participate. Here You might want to also read My piece, The End of Entropy. A Planetary Solution: The End of Entropy

    And stigmergy, defined here: M/C Journal: "Stigmergic Collaboration: The Evolution of Group Work" is a way, via the web, We can have governANCE.

    EDIT to point out that the word "government" etymologically breaks down to "control mind" - Some controlling the minds of Others.
    Last edited by Amaterasu; June 9th, 2012 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Addition
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

  6. #16

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Amaterasu, I have read all the links and could not help but feel sad, as I realized that big inflated ego will always interfere and separate us. Sir you have no shame in creating bad propaganda about TZM, instead of learning to work together, it is like creating a new branch of the same religion. How do you expect us to move forward as one humanity if you can't bring yourself to work with people who think the same? reminds me of people who say;my religion is better than yours,,,my party is better than yours and so on,, sorry to say I do not trust you as far as I can throw you as you preach one thing and do another!

  7. #17

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    To me, as long as there is no ruling force, and everyone abides by the don't harm others law, it really doesn't matter if there are some that wish to have and others just wish to be. I personally just want a place to live where we are free, can do what we want (without hurting anyone else in the process), and can go where we want when we want.

    I agree, there is an abundance of natural resources on this planet and we don't need to have commercialism in any way shape or form. Money NEEDS to go.

    The problem I see is that it's gonna take a lot of effort to get people to accept that they CAN live without money, and just LIVE, free and happy.

    I feel you guys are arguing the same base points but in different ways. This causes resistance to ANY of these discussions, unfortunately.

    We all need to work together to first rid the evil monetary system and rid ourselves of these "governments" that are in place. Then we can talk more about what to do from there. I'm not saying stop talking about the end means, not in any way, we need to keep that out there, it'll only make it easier when we get there. But let's GET there. Once there, we'll adjust to how free we are and no one should EVER have all, and no one will EVER have none. All should be a free resource, and will be if we can work together.
    The truth IS out there! We just tend to look in all the wrong places.

  8. #18

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    HUH??? I'm sorry, Desiree, but I think You have built a mountain out of a molehill. I am surely willing to work with others - don't know where You got the idea I don't. I merely pointed out where I differ. Geez.

    I am on the TZM forum discussing things there, and most tend to agree with My points, FYI. I am not looking for trust. I am looking to reach the tipping point of awareness of the solution.

    And who's preaching? I offer a solution. I have differences with Venus and Zeitgeist, many are in presentation only, but some are in specifics. If I cannot show where those differences are to You, please don't read. [shrug] Do have a nice life.

    EDIT to add: Also, on MANY occasions I have told People to take My work and put Their name on it if They want to. It's NOT about ME, it's about the ideas spreading. How's THAT for "ego?"
    Last edited by Amaterasu; June 10th, 2012 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Addition
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

  9. #19

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Amaterasu, sorry if I lost my patience, when I asked you about RBE Venus project and TZM, your reply was that they assume a government of a sort, and believe me it is a mountain. I knew different but still made sure by posting your comment on the TZM forum so I can reply armed withe the truth, I then collated the replies and came back to you,, I did not hear you say sorry I stand corrected, or any thing of the sort, instead you continued advertising your party,, I do not trust people who can't agree that they where wrong, simply because they are not ready to learn from their mistakes.
    I also find you arguing about the use of certain words, I prefer this word to that word and so on,,witch also frustrated me as that is the least of our problems considering the task ahead, your first replies kind of dismissed the benefit of the movements we where talking about, until your last reply. Please in the future get your facts right before posting and when corrected pls confirm that you stand corrected, we are both on the same side and that is what I found most frustrating, and disheartening
    Peace Light and love

  10. #20

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    I really didn't see anything I was "corrected" on. I saw explanations of a meting out of resources, which in the vast abundance of this planet is not necessary, I saw a supposition that I don't like the word "economy," which is true, a suggestion there won't be any governance - and if that's the case, how is the meting out of resources accomplished? Who is doing this measurement of happiness - if there is no governance...? Who gets to program these computers to dictate? [shiver at THAT word!] In all this vast abundance, why do We need a computer dictating to Us??? Sounds like a hidden government via computer programs. Who takes control in an emergency? In stigmergic governance, leaders of the moment will emerge, to fade back into the population once a problem has been solved - with Their name recognition, thanks, lauds, self satisfaction... And stigmergically - and with organic, natural solutions prized, We will not have to worry about making sure "we don't destroy our environment." That will be built in - and without profit motive, there will be no incentive to do otherwise.

    Yeah... "Computer dictates" sounds ominous.

    And again, in this vastly abundant planet (that is only perceived to be scarce because of the scarcity of energy which causes a scarcity of money which hinders development which creates a looming concept that We must live communistically, coordinated by computers, to ensure We all have what We need) there is no reason to keep tabs on the consumption when the abundance flows to all in the measure They choose. There can easily be enough for 100 times the present population to have all They want. And when One can have all One wants, without ads and social pressure to consume, One tends to be much more discerning. One tends to take only that which One needs for comfort and the pursuit of bliss.

    There is a BIG difference between communism (making sure the one pie is divvied up equally) and the abundance paradigm - which is a giant warehouse full of pies from which each may have as much or as little as One wants. Rather than, "from Each according to ability; to Each according to need," abundancism is "From Each according to BLISS; to each according to DESIRE."

    Which will make for a happier society, do You think?

    No, it seems I am not wrong. The government is passed on in the form of computer programs - as I said, some kind of governMENT - "control MIND" - just hidden. And so I will not be standing corrected.
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

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