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Thread: I AM Amaterasu...

  1. #31

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Desiree:
    1) I likened money to blood, you likened it to energy and soil. I agree with you!
    Blood is also a carrier of energy (oxygen) and a medium for a virus to grow in!
    With soil/ energy/ blood removed, the "virus" has No Place/ No Power/ No means of Transportation.

    That works in our analogies. But you define evil as the "LOVE of money". So:
    With soil (Money) removed, the Love-of-money-evil has No Evil (to grow in).

    Duh!! You do not suggest a something better (what to replace money with),
    you do not define the problem (other than: Without Evil there is no Evil), and
    you do not offer a reason why to remove money (while you state that the root of all evil is the LOVE)!

    2) Societies started out without money, so if there is none, you will go back to that level. As I said, 90% of the people will not be able to get enough food given today's population.
    3) Where do you get FREE energy? If you have a secret, please tell me, because if it is FREE, most people will be interested in getting huge amounts of it. You may be able to lower the cost of collection and distribution of things but collection and distribution, effort, management, decisions, risks still do have a cost. Production and availability does not happen by itself.
    4) You envision robotic operators but Zeitgeist complained about the use of automation as a means to eliminate jobs.
    5) We do not have the technology to mine for metals with robots (just like we do not have the technology to make free energy).
    6) When "the poor of today can live as well as the rich of today" they will go to the best restaurant in town. But since nobody will work for free (or do you claim you would work if there is nothing in it for you?), the restaurant will use robots to serve its customers (who do not pay for their meal), the food is exclusively vegetarian and was seeded and harvested by robots. These robots were built and maintained by bigger robots - until the big robots break down and nobody is there to fix them. And the restaurant closes because its owner decided to use his robots for something to benefit himself rather than customers who do not pay him for his efforts.
    7) In your world you can go for free to watch a sport game for free. But the players will be robots because no human would be interested in making an effort when there is nothing to gain. But who would built the robots to compete? Oops, nobody is willing to build robots when there is nothing to gain.
    8) But that is good because competition is evil, according to Zeitgeist. Then there should be no such thing as a sport where you can win or lose, ever.
    9) Then also in school there should be no grades that could cause you to pass or fail. Plus, there would be no point in being educated because you "can live as well as the rich of today" no matter what.
    10) If everything is free, everybody will waste everything. If it does not belong to you, or you can have as much as you like for free, then nobody would need to worry about the fact that some robot had to produce it while using unlimited free energy.

    11) The root of all evil is the LOVE of money. I may agree with you on the problem. But love is a feeling. You will not remove it by changing ANY law. If you are a parent, try that with your child!
    12) I disagree on the cure: it is not removing the system (money) but improving it. Come up with a system that works better! And be specific in how it would work.

    PS. Do you know about the Ron Paul rEVOLution?

  2. #32

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Desiree: I just noticed your earlier post.

    You think outside the box, I grant you, the box being physical reality and current technology. Outside those boxes I call wishful dreaming. I stick to the box of what is possible.

    So, because you think Einstein and the "greatest brains of the last centuries" (who were clearly not the norm) were not motivated by money or sex (how did you determine that?), for that reason we do not need money? And: How does that answer my question of what can motivate people?

  3. #33

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Illqerty, so Ron Paul your mentor is motivated by money and sex
    I do not trust the guy as he was proven to be a racist in the past, he is unfortunately the best for America at the min but by no means a mentor to me.

    I grew up in a well to do family with servants and hated the inequality, I clearly remember a woman servant who cried once in front of me while reading a letter form home or abroad as she left her husband and children behind to make money to send home, I was 13 and ever since I started analyzing the meaning of money and made up my mind that it is the cancer of our society but every body laughed at me when I told them what I think. When I heard of the Zeitgeist Movement and resource based economy I felt justified and not so mad after all, I did not follow blindly and questioned and will continue to do that every step of the way.
    I for one as an artist am not motivated by money, as a matter of fact to make a living I had to abandon my art to do boring and stressful jobs. I gave the last ten years of my life to an international charity and settled for low wages, to find out that they are no better than the rest nasty bunch of hypocrites and thieves, hierarchy being the order of the day.
    I as a mother I can tell you that money is not what motivates me certainly not sex as it does you, now that my children are grown up and flown the nest I am back to doing what I love to do most and will gladly give my art away to be appreciated by many not the rich only.
    If I am housed and well looked after mentally and physically in a RBE world what do I need money for? I can see myself teaching art for free and looking after the children, I am happiest when helping others.
    I joined the occupy movement and found myself supporting the camp with the little I have, money was not what motivated me the opposite.
    We are advancing so much and machines and robots are taking over, I do not hate that fact I found them liberating human being from brain numbing jobs.
    I have I listened to Jaque Fresco the founder of the Venus project answering your question about what motivates people if not money and he makes sense to me.
    I wonder Lliqwerty if sex is what motivates you will you pay money to get it?

  4. #34

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Illqwerty, confusion galore again lol
    I think the above reply is directed to Amaterasu not me

  5. #35

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    First, it is not I who defines evil as the LOVE OF MONEY. It is an ancient definition - and, if I am not mistaken, in the bible. Yes. Here it is:

    Timothy 6:10

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil:" King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)


    Ok. What We have now is a chance to go in a direction Humankind has never before gone. The elements that make it possible are as follows:

    1. Free energy (though presently hidden, it exists). Never had this before. You are looking at things from an energy scarcity paradigm.
    2. Robots. Brand new to Us.
    3. The interweb. Brand new to Us.

    You ask what will "replace money." In the abundance paradigm, there IS NO NEED FOR MONEY - or any replacement. Robots farm, transport, create products, fix robots, fix Your lightbulbs, and You can go to the web, place an order, and the thing You ordered will be delivered to You. No money. The energy was free and the labor was free. The materials are given freely by this enormous and abundant planet So what would You be paying for?

    It really is a paradigm shift, and maybe it's the language barrier that You are stuck in the scarcity paradigm. Now... In the abundance paradigm You wouldn't have to work. You could travel, or sit on the beach all day, or whatever. BUT... If You WANTED to work, not for a living but because You LOVE to do it, it is Your BLISS, then nothing will stop You from working. If You adore farming, You can request a spot of land - as little or as much as You want - and the robots will move over and let You go to town. If You are in Your bliss standing on an assembly line or sitting in a factory sewing sleeves on garments all day, the robots will make room for You. And if Your bliss building robots (MANY of those) or programming robots (LOTS of those too), that's what You can do.

    No One HAS to work for a living - but all MAY live to work. If You love painting, You can do so whenever and wherever You choose. Maybe put Your paintings on the web and give them to the Person who expresses the greatest appreciation. You won't charge MONEY but appreciation for Your work. You don't need money - all You need is available to order from the web. But You may get famous as a painter and have People begging for Your work...

    If You LOVE to do research in biology, You can educate Yourself for free (teachers will be highly valued as They should be), and join in a research group, start Your own group, or strike out on Your own. You could earn recognition for finding a cure.

    Maybe You LOVE to entertain... You could become famous for the parties You throw. Or perhaps You are avid about archaeology. You might make a famous discovery and earn name recognition like that. Conceivably You are happiest when You are cooking food for Others. With robots to help, You might open a restaurant and have Your name plastered all over the bloggosphere as the BEST. And then You might have to take reservations! You might be in Your bliss doing Others' hair and make quite a name for Yourself as a hairdresser. Or maybe You want to explore the planets and send pictures from each of them as You visit, while People back here watch Your daily broadcasts... Perhaps You love to design clothes - You might be invited to show Your creation at events put on by People who love to put on events and have everyOne wanting to wear YOUR styles. Maybe You just love to travel and explore this planet. Go for it.

    So what will "replace money?" Social currency.

    Your #2 is a scarcity paradigm assumption. No, with the new additions, We will NOT "go back to that level."

    #3 - It is presently hidden in black projects, one of the methods is electrogravitics. I am beginning to think You really did not read fully The End of Entropy. I know about electrogravitics because My father, a CalTech graduate in electrical engineering, was a top engineer at one of the foremost aerospace companies in the 1950's. Back then He would come home and, with great excitement, tell Me about His work. He tried to explain how it worked, but I was too young to catch that, He told Me of the successful experiments He had done on the days He had done them - gravity control ("antigravity") and overunity ("free energy"), and like most kids want a favorite book read to Them over and over, I would beg My dad to tell Me what the world would look like because of His work. Every night. And He would describe flying cars, floating cities, "jet" packs (without jets), and all the energy We could want to use.

    Then, one night, late 1959, maybe early 1960, He came home to tell Me We couldn't talk about the flying cars and floating cities, the "jet" packs and the free energy - We couldn't even say the word, "electrogravitics" - because, "They want it secret for now." And He never talked about His work again.

    So, though that is not the only free energy source, I like it because I want a flying car. (They have MANY ways of creating overunity that They have bought and buried patents, threatened inventors and Their families, and even murdered for. Because once We have free energy, They lose Their power over Us via money.)

    #4 - Of course it will eliminate jobs - but only the jobs no One WANTS to do. Since no One HAS to work, who cares about jobs being eliminated?

    #5 - Oh, My dear Person. Have You taken a look at the robotics that is in the public domain? They've approved a robot driven car! They have robots that can sample and analyze the rocks on Mars, f'chrissake. The military is 50-100 years ahead of that! Believe Me. We DO have the tech to set robots to mining.

    #6 - With robot chefs, no need to go out to eat well, but there will be plenty of People who will advertise on the web who will happily cook for You just for the joy of doing so and seeing Their creations appreciated. People can hunt around and make reservations on the web. As for vegetarian... There will be farm animals raised by robots (and People who LOVE to raise farm animals), all organically raise... There may not always be meat available - it will be first come, first served - but I don't see why You assumed there would be none.

    #6.5 - Why do You think the fixer robots a) are BIG, and b) cannot fix each other? I see them as smallish, and fully capable of fixing one another.

    #7 - Really?!? Do little leaguers play for the money? Or do They play for the fun and the chance at glory? I assure You, there will be PLENTY of Humans playing sports because They LOVE to play! They LOVE the shot at glory! They LOVE the fans! If They don't NEED money, They will play from the heart. Are You really so out of touch with Human nature to think no One would want to play just for the LOVE of playing games???

    #8 - Then Zeitgeist has some serious issues. Taking away games from Humans is to condemn Them to a sad existence. They will become moody and unhappy if what They LOVE to do is denied Them. Competition is GOOD for Us, when it is friendly (and money makes it vicious) and played for the love of the game.

    #9 - With a focus on bliss as the goal, every student will be studying what They LOVE, and students who LOVE what They are studying very rarely fail to learn superbly. Think back on school. Wasn't there some subject You just loved? Didn't You excel in it? With no need for a "career," every student is free to study that which They are INTERESTED in. Teachers may or may not choose to give grades - that will depend on the teacher. But with only students who are truly interested in learning what any given teacher wants to teach, grades are likely completely unnecessary.

    #10 - Why would People waste things? In fact, expect waste to drop radically. Rather than having to go to the store and buy stuff for a week, and then throw out anything that doesn't make it, One can order the ingredients for meals an hour before any given meal, have them delivered and prepared (by robots or not) and then eat the meal. Or if One wants, One can order a weeks worth... But overall, waste will go down right there. Then there is the fact that food will be distributed by need and not profit. That will eliminate HUGE amounts of waste - presently supermarkets throw out hundreds of thousands of TONS of food a MONTH. Food that didn't sell. Enough to feed most of the hungry on this planet. Theft-deterring packaging will be eliminated. Paper products like plates, bowls, cups and other "disposable" items will not be used - robots will collect the china (or whatever permanent thing they are made of) and clean them and put them away. No need for the "disposable" stuff. No, nobody will have to worry, BUT... It will be seen as bad form to waste stuff just because You can. That is counter to the sustainability that is part of the paradigm.

    #11 - This makes no sense. If You have no child to love, You cannot love one. If You have no money to love, You cannot love it.

    #12 - There IS no way to improve money. Money is flawed inherently. It allows for some to live in privilege while the many suffer (1% vs 99%), it promotes greed, it motivates People to do unethical things like steal, defraud, hurt and even kill. (People are killed for inheritance all the time!) In 5,000 years, money has not changed. It corrupts, it segregates, it creates classes and conflict, it motivates the war profiteers to instigate war so They can make a profit, it leaves many starving, it debases Humanity.

    And since We now have the way to eliminate the NEED for it, with new developments, Let's just get rid of it.

    And to answer Your question about what motivates People beyond money (and sex)... If You haven't seen it yet, here's a short list:

    Bliss
    Joy
    Personal satisfaction
    Glory
    Name recognition
    Thanks
    Gratitude
    Love for People
    Lauds
    Fame
    Fun
    Challenge
    Relaxation
    Physical "high"
    Appreciation
    Good Works
    Pleasure

    Doubt this? How many People go to a job They don't much care for or even hate, and come home and tinker with something because They love to tinker? Or paint a picture? Or play music? Or [fill in the blank] - only because it relaxes Them, or gives Them pleasure or makes someOne happy or...any reason other than because it makes money? Humans are very motivate, and if the energy was not being sapped from Them making 1% very rich, They would spend Their time doing things because They LOVE to do them.
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

  6. #36

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desiree View Post
    Illqerty, so Ron Paul your mentor is motivated by money and sex
    I do not trust the guy as he was proven to be a racist in the past, he is unfortunately the best for America at the min but by no means a mentor to me.

    I grew up in a well to do family with servants and hated the inequality, I clearly remember a woman servant who cried once in front of me while reading a letter form home or abroad as she left her husband and children behind to make money to send home, I was 13 and ever since I started analyzing the meaning of money and made up my mind that it is the cancer of our society but every body laughed at me when I told them what I think. When I heard of the Zeitgeist Movement and resource based economy I felt justified and not so mad after all, I did not follow blindly and questioned and will continue to do that every step of the way.
    I for one as an artist am not motivated by money, as a matter of fact to make a living I had to abandon my art to do boring and stressful jobs. I gave the last ten years of my life to an international charity and settled for low wages, to find out that they are no better than the rest nasty bunch of hypocrites and thieves, hierarchy being the order of the day.
    I as a mother I can tell you that money is not what motivates me certainly not sex as it does you, now that my children are grown up and flown the nest I am back to doing what I love to do most and will gladly give my art away to be appreciated by many not the rich only.
    If I am housed and well looked after mentally and physically in a RBE world what do I need money for? I can see myself teaching art for free and looking after the children, I am happiest when helping others.
    I joined the occupy movement and found myself supporting the camp with the little I have, money was not what motivated me the opposite.
    We are advancing so much and machines and robots are taking over, I do not hate that fact I found them liberating human being from brain numbing jobs.
    I have I listened to Jaque Fresco the founder of the Venus project answering your question about what motivates people if not money and he makes sense to me.
    I wonder Lliqwerty if sex is what motivates you will you pay money to get it?
    Desiree, I learned about "charity" organizations when I temped at the MDA once. I was in charge of preparing the deposits from the "fundraisers." There were 2-4 a week. Usually any given deposit was $50,000 or more (and this was 25 years ago!). So that single office was taking in $150,000 a week, give or take. I learned the office Director made $60,000 a year (a GOOD chunk of change back then!), and the fundraisers (two of Them) each made $34,000 a year. The single patient services Person made $25,000 a year, and the Person whose job I was filling in while She was on maternity leave made $17,000 a year.

    One day a muscular dystrophy afflicted man, recently diagnosed, called in and requested a pair of crutches. I forwarded His call to the patient services Person. A while later He called back, very worked up, asking if there was someOne else He could talk to. I said We only had one patient services Person, and asked what was wrong. He said that He had been denied crutches. That there was no money for them! Well... I was confused. How could this be? I forwarded His call to the patient services Person in the hopes She could straighten things out. Maybe there was miscommunication.

    Later that day I spoke with Her. In a very disgusted tone She let Me know that She only had an annual budget of $1,000 and She had already gone through all of it and had no more money to spend, so no... The patient did NOT get His crutches! At that point My eyes were opened WIDE about "charities!" The only charity *I* will give to is the Salvation Army, and even then, NOT money!
    Last edited by Amaterasu; June 13th, 2012 at 09:14 AM.
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

  7. #37

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Wow, Thank you for your response, although I don't agree with a word you said, I sure hope you will find this world somewhere sometime. It would be nice if it were possible. In the meantime I will stay in mine, which is.

  8. #38

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Desire: when you are swimming in money then you are not motivated by money - Duh!!! because you don't need any - you can devote yourself of the exquisite activities of the bourgeoisie and look down on those who need to work for their money. Be happy for helping others in your friggen charity. I want nothing to do with your kind.

  9. #39

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    My whole point on this planet is to try and change WHAT IS into what CAN BE. I would love to hear what You disagree with. You're welcome for the response.
    "If the universe is made of mostly dark energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
    "If You want Peace, take the profit out of war."
    "Information will free Us."

  10. #40

    Re: I AM Amaterasu...

    Amaterasu: Well, you certainly got your work cut out. I see you needing to change mankind into something we are not (yet) How will you do that?
    and you will need to invent technology that is not only not available today, it never will be (are you familiar with the term perpetuum mobile?) That is free energy.

    I hate to argue with you because you hold your beliefs dear. Like, if you are a religious person, I will not try to convince that your religion is worng. I challenged you to explain your belief and you did, so it is not for me to say that I know better.

    My approach and my hope in a forum is to find MY beliefs challenged and broadened. (Btw, we used the words Money and Sex, we could have used Power and Pleasure instead). But Economy is not my main interest. As I noted in my intro, 911 did not occur the way we were told, which means that the Government AND the Media are actively hiding the truth. (I am proud to be a "truther"). It also means, I suppose, that the conspiracy that I allege goes way beyond what Occupy alleges. IF I am correct, then what does that mean for our future? I believe (I would welcome you challenging me on this) that our Liberties will continue to be slowly removed until we end up in a tyranny, and further down the road, a One World Government.

    Despite the above generalization we all engage in charitable acts to different degrees - however they are largely inconsequential in the grand picture. But we try to make it as meaningful as we (I) can. My contribution that I hope to accomplish is to show why the people involved in 911 did what they did. What do YOU think motivated THEM?

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